英语新闻视频：Charlie Rose采访杨澜

主持人：杨澜是阳光媒体集团的董事长，集团经营媒体、在线等业务。我很高兴杨澜今天首次来我们这个节目，欢迎你。

　　Host: Yang Lan is chairwoman of Sun Media Group, which has other businesses in media, online and more. I am very pleased to have her here at this table for the first time. Welcome.

　　杨澜：谢谢查理。谢谢邀请我来参加你的节目。

　　Yang Lan: Thanks you, Charlie. Thank you for having me.

　　主持人：跟我分享下你的这些经历是如何开始的？

　　Host: Tell me how this started for you.

　　杨澜：这一切是20年前开始，我刚刚大学毕业。那时候，中央电视台首次公开从大学毕业生中选拔主持人，为一个黄金时段的娱乐节目，节目名称叫《正大综艺》。是一个向中国观众介绍世界各地旅游观光的节目，当时99%的中国人还连护照都没有。所以，在当时中国逐渐开放的时代，这是人们了解外面世界的一个新窗口。

　　Yang Lan: It all started exactly 20 years ago, when I was graduating from college. At that time, the national television had its first open audition, for college graduates for its prime time variety show, called Zheng Da Variety Show. That was a show to introduce sightseeing around the world to the Chinese audience, who at that time, 99% of our population, didn't even have a passport. So it was a brand new exposure to the outside world, when China was opening up.

　　主持人：你以前想过做这种工作吗？

　　Host: Have you thought about that kind of career before that?

　　杨澜：没有，完全没有。我在北京外交学院主修英语语言文学。当我接触到这个机会的时候，出于好奇就去了，当时有1000个女孩应试，经过多回合的选拔，应该是七轮选拔，我最后胜出，这件事为我在电视事业的发展奠定了很好的开端。我主持的第一个节目就是个全国性在黄金时段播出的节目，每周有两亿观众观看这个节目。我在这个节目干了四年。那段时光确实为我的职业生涯奠定了一个很好的开端。

　　Yang Lan: No, not at all. My major in college was English literature and language in Beijing Foreign Studies University. When I was offered this opportunity, out of curiosity, I went, as well as another 1,000 girls. After rounds of auditions, I believe, it's after 7 rounds of auditions; I became the last one who survived it. So it gave me a really good start into broadcasting television. And the first show I hosted was a prime-time nation-wide show, which had an audience of 200 million every week. I did it for four years. That really gave me a pretty good start in the career.

　　主持人：这些数字让人惊叹。从美国电视的角度来说。中国的农业部长访问华盛顿的时候，我曾在这里采访他 当时肯尼迪中心正举办中国节，他们问我是否可以在中国播放这个节目。我在采访中说当然可以了。他们说，你会有机会被3亿观众看到，这个人数比我看到过的或一辈子在任何场合中遇到过的都要多。

　　Host: It's stunning to hear those numbers. From an American television perspective. I once did an interview with the Minister of Culture from China here. It was in Washington, where they had held a Chinese festival at the Kennedy Center. So they asked me: Could they re-broadcast it in China? I said of course at the interview. They said you probably would reach 300 million people, which was more people than I have ever seen or anything I have done in my entire life.

　　杨澜：我们有13亿人口。

　　Yang Lan: But we have 1.3 billion.

　　主持人：于是你就开始……

　　Host: So then you began to…

　　杨澜：之后我辞了工作来到美国在哥伦比亚大学读研究生并主修国际关系。毕业后，我回香港加入凤凰卫视，卫星电视网络的一个普通话频道，我开始制作我自己的节目《杨澜面对面》。当时是中文电视的首个一对一深入采访节目。我做采访做了12年，加上在凤凰卫视的日子。在这个节目里，我采访了世界各地600多位举足轻重的人物，他们中很多人也曾经是您的嘉宾。

　　Yang Lan: And then I quit my job to come to the States for a post-graduate study at Columbia University of New York, where I studied International Affairs. Upon graduation, I went back to Hong Kong to join Phoenix TV, the mandarinchannel of Star TV Network. I started to produce my own show, Yan Lan 1-on-1, which was the first ever in-depth 1-on-1 interview show on Chinese television. I have been doing that, for, plus the days at Phoenix TV, 12 years. So over this time, I have interviewed more than 600 movers and shakers around the world. And many of them have been your guests too.

　　主持人：你的企业家精神从哪里来？事实上，你不仅有事业，还和您的丈夫一起创业。

　　Host: Where did this entrepreneurial spirit that you have come from? The fact that you have not just had a career, but you also have engaged in creating businesses and enterprises along with your husband.

　　杨澜：嗯，那是10年前，2000年。我们一起创立了阳光媒体，在大中华地区的第一个卫星纪录片频道。因为那时候，我非常沉迷纪录片。我想这些能深度记录文化、历史和人文的片子会有持久的价值。但那一次尝试失败了。坚持了四年 原因是生意模式不可持续。因为我们设在香港，然而当时国内的落地证很少，所以频道没法拿到更多的广告费支持。

　　Yang Lan: Well, that was 10 years ago, the year of 2000. We co-founded Sun TV, which was the first satellite documentary channel for the greater China area. Because at that time, I was so obsessed with documentary. I think they have lasting values, give in-depth look into culture and history and people. But then that business had a flop. In four years' time, because the business model was not sustainable. The fact was we were positioned in Hong Kong, but then we had limited landing right into the mainland, which didn't give it enough advertising revenuebasis.

　　主持人：我想默多克曾投资凤凰卫视。

　　Host: I think Rupert Murdoch at once was invested in the Phoenix Television, was he not?

　　杨澜：是的，他应该仍然是股东之一。后来我们把频道卖了，然后开始做多媒体整合，综合了电视、网站、活动策划等媒体。

　　Yang Lan: Yes, I think he is still part of the shareholders. So we sold the channel. We started to build multi-media integration into different aspects of the media. Television, website, and then big events, so on so forth.

主持人：现在有没有一个网站上介绍您是什么人，做什么，或者甚至有您的博客。

　　Host: Is there a website now that reflects the broadest understanding of who you are, what you are about and might even carry a blog from you.

　　杨澜：我在中国几个领先的门户网站有博客，我也有微博。我们的天女网社区也有三、四百万粉丝。我们的网站以中文为主，名字叫 tiannv.com，也就是天女的拼音。目标受众是城市女性。

　　Yang Lan: I have a blog in several leading portals in China, and also tweeter. Our social community for Her Village (TianNv.com) for example is around 3 to 4 million followers. And our website is mostly in mandarin, It's called Tiannv.com, which is the Chinese spelling for Her Village. That's targeted at urban women.

　　主持人：你觉得这个不凡的事业会走向何方？

　　Host: Where is, you think, this remarkable career headed?

　　杨澜：我不知道，我觉得中国现在有那么多令人兴奋的机遇。媒体也在开放，还有各种各样的事情人们想去尝试。如果你没有现成的平台去实践这些理想，你可以尝试自己创造。我想这就是企业家精神的源泉。对于我，它是……我想我们处于一个没有一个单一平台可以完成所有沟通任务的年代，因此它会更整合。利用媒体、沟通方式，到达你的目标受众，对于我来说，服务于城市女性是我的目标之一。

　　Yang Lan: I don't know. I think there are so many exciting opportunities in China. The media is also opening up. So there are all sorts of things that you want to do. And if you don't have existing platforms to help to do that, you try to create something for yourself. I think that's where the entrepreneurship comes from. And for me, it's about… I think we have come into an age in which not a singularplatform can complete the whole communication job. So it's more integrated. Media, communication, into your targeted audience For me, serving the urban women audience is one of my goals.

　　主持人：在中国，是否有一种与生俱来的商业意识在苏醒在等待开放，等待机会去创造？

　　Host: Was there just a natural instinct for business that was there, dormant in China, waiting for it to open, waiting for their opportunity to create things?

　　杨澜：我认为是的。它已经被压制了几十年。忽然开放了，人人都想碰碰运气，因此到处都洋溢着企业家精神。尤其是在那些想碰运气的年轻人当中，他们首先想实现梦想和抱负。因此，我认为梦有多远，人就能走到多远。

　　Yang Lan: I believe so. It has been suppressed for decades. And suddenly when things open up, everyone wants to try his luck. So there is a lot of entrepreneurial spirits in the air, especially among young people, who want to try their luck. And above all, try to realize their dreams, their aspirations. So I think your imagination is your limit.

　　主持人：马云前几天来这里，我想你肯定认识他。他建立了一个亚马逊式的商业帝国，不同凡响。

　　Host: Jack Ma was here the other day. Someone I am sure you must know. He has created an Amazon-like umpire. It's extraordinary.

　　杨澜：是的，现在是年轻人创造他们自己的帝国的时候了。但对于我，我并不想建立什么帝国，而是做自己真正喜欢的事情，有时候我想我还真挺擅长这些。

　　Yang Lan: Yeah, it's the age for younger people to create their own empires. For me, it's not about building my own umpire. It's about something that I really enjoy doing and sometimes I think I am good at it.

　　主持人：你确实不错，尝试新事物。不仅是问你为什么要这样做，而且问为什么不，这是我的思考方式。跟我们说说文化的转变，时尚、影视方面的转变，城市生活方式的意识等。

　　Host: You obviously are good at it. So trying something new, not just asking the question why do you want to do it, but the question why not is my mentality. Talk to us about the cultural changes and the changes in fashion, in cinema, and the sense of life style in the urban areas.

　　杨澜：今后20年将可能见证中国从艺术到影视、到纪录片、到时尚、任何事物众多方面的复兴。但我们发现社会价值的重建问题，人们曾经也依稀看到过这样的意识形态。随后变成了物质主义。有个相亲节目，里面的男孩问女孩要不要坐在我自行车后座一起去玩，女孩说我宁愿坐在宝马车的后座上哭。这在社会上引起很大争议，反映了物质主义统治着年轻一代的价值观。然后社会上有很大的反响。我们到底怎么了？难道物质主义、物质上的成功是我们这代的唯一目标吗？我们在寻求的东西里有没有更有价值、更持久的东西？我想在今后 20 年，不仅是艺术、时尚和创造的复兴，还有我们价值观的重建。建设文明社会会是其中的一部分。上周我的基金会，阳光文化基金会，与比尔梅连达盖茨基金会合办了一场活动。

　　Yang Lan: The following two decade will possibly witness a renaissance of all kinds in China. From arts to cinema, to documentaries, to fashion, to whatever. But also we found it is a restoration of values into the society, where people got this illusion from certain ideology before. But then there was materialism. There was a dating show, In which when the boy asked the girl do you want to sit on the back seat of my bicycle and we both have fun, the girl said I would rather cry on the back seat of a BMW, which aroused huge controversy in the society, suggesting materialism is overruling the value system of the younger generation. But then there is a big outcry in the society saying that what's wrong with us? Is materialism, material success, the only goal for our generation? Is there something more valuable, more lasting that we are seeking? So I think for the next two decades, it's not just the renaissance of arts, of fashion, of creativity but also it's about the reinvention of our value system. And building up a civil society is a part of that. Last week my foundation, Sun Culture foundation, co-organized an event with the Bill &Melinda Gates Foundation.

　　主持人：这是不是比尔跟沃伦要找……中国的富翁。

　　Host: Is it when Bill and Warren looking for...Chinese billionaires.

　　杨澜：活动不是关于捐献而是互相交流慈善精神。我还要请了民政部长来参与。他事后写了博客说，他从未来的慈善家们那里得到了很多反馈，说我们要先建立慈善的法规，也要扶植非盈利组织和非政府组织的设立。

　　Yang Lan: It's not about giving pledge. It's about equal exchange of ideas of philanthropy. I also invited the Minister of Civil Affairs to be a partner, from which he also wrote a blog, saying that he got so much feedback from future philanthropists, saying that first of all we need legislation for philanthropy. Also we need capacity building for our NPO and NGOs.

　　主持人：新一代领导人，比如现在 30 岁 或者 40 岁 出头的骨干们，与他们的上一代有什么不同？

　　Host: Will the new generation of leadership, say, young man and women in their early 30s now and early 40s, how are they different from the generation that they will succeed?

　　杨澜：他们接受过更好的教育，很多人读过大学，他们也通过互联网和其它媒体了解了世界。他们中的很多人现在有能力去国外旅游，你也看见旅游业，在国内和国外的蓬勃发展。这一代思考问题不会受到地域的限制，会超出地域界限去思考。企业家们在其它国家投资；年轻人在美国，在欧洲和其它地方寻求教育，在什么事能做，什么事能实现方面的限制比以前少了。我们很多人都知道北京上海香港和其它几个城市。

　　Yang Lan: They have got very decent education, college education. For many of them. And they have the exposure through the internet and other media to the world. And many of them can afford international travels these days. So you see the booming of tourism, both at home and abroad. So this generation does not only think about themselves with the limitation of geographic boundaries but rather they can think across the borders. The entrepreneurs are investing in other countries. Younger people, they are seeking education here or in Europe, and elsewhere. So there is less limit in terms of what they can do, what they can achieve. Most of us know about Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong and a few other huge cities.

　　主持人：能否介绍下在此之外的中国。

　　Host: Tell us the China beyond that.

　　杨澜：在中国，东部和西部的差距是很大的，主要城市与二线城市，三线城市的差距也很大。浩大的城市化进程正在发生。人们从边远地区流向城市，过去 20 年，超过 2 亿边远地区人口经历了城市化。今后 20 年，还有 3 亿人口会进入城市。

　　Yang Lan: In China, there is a huge disparity from East to West, from major cities to second-tier, third-tier cities. But there is a massive process of urbanization, which is taking place right now. People coming from the rural areas to the city. Over the past two decades, more than 200 million rural population has been urbanized. For the next two decades, another 300 million are coming into cities.

主持人：这对中国意味着什么？他们来到城市，找到工作吗？找到机会吗？

　　Host: What does that mean for China? They are coming in. Are they finding jobs? They are finding opportunities?

　　杨澜：他们找到工作，也找到机会，但公共政策也需要为他们和他们下一代的需求做出调整。例如，地区城市怎么提供医疗服务、教育和住房给这些民工等等。他们是否应该与城市人一样被平等看待？很多的实践在进行中。在中国 300多个城市的人口超过百万。

　　Yang Lan: They are finding jobs. They are finding opportunities. But also public policy needs to be adjusted to suit the needs of them and their children. For example, how should the local cities provide medical services, education, housing to these migrant workers. Should they be treated equally as city residents? And so on so forth. So a lot of experiments are going on. In China, there are more than 300 cities with a population beyond 1 million.

　　主持人：300个城市有过百万人口？

　　Host: 300 cities with a population more than a million?

　　杨澜：如果你今天到中国的二、三线城市，会看到大量的工程在进行，还有更成熟的城市规划。你会看到成百上千的新剧院在兴建，还有博物馆、公园，等等；高速火车将很快连接整个国家并把它的交通提升到一个新的水平；你还会看到沟通速度的提升，还有信息的传播。我不知道这个国家将走向何方，但我想它会走向更开放，肯定是走向全球最大的经济体，我想它也是走向更开放的社会，并给年轻人提供更多的机会。

　　Yang Lan: If you visit second or third tier cities nowadays in China, massive construction, but also more sophisticated city planning. You see hundreds, thousands of new theaters being built, museums and parks and so on so forth. And the high-speed train will soon connect the whole country and raise it to another level of communication in transportation. So you will see the speeding up of communication and also the spread of information. I don't know what the country is heading for. But I think it is heading for a more open society. It's heading for the largest economy in the world for sure. I think it's also heading for a more open society. And also for young people, more opportunities.

　　主持人：为什么这个进程没有更快一些？

　　Host: Why doesn’t that take place faster?

　　杨澜：保持稳定是一个因素，试想3亿人口的流动。如果你看到那个场景，你会很惊讶，每年农历新年，有2亿人口回他们在边远地区的家乡，那是一个庞大人流。城乡收入差别也很大。年轻的大学毕业生可能无法负担大城市飙升的房价，市场上有商业房地产泡沫破裂的恐惧。是的，有各种忧虑和担心。我想保持社会稳定是一个大挑战和任务。你相信吗，作为媒体工作者，我有时想这个速度发展得太快了点。例如，土地的使用。我们可能是在滥用土地，把本该留给下一代的土地储备都用了。我们在一块土地上建立了那么多的东西，例如建筑物，很多其实很差迟早要被拆除，这对环境、资源和资金是多么浪费。我想社会是在开放，越来越开放。

　　Yang Lan: Instability is a big issue, if you have 300 million people migrating. If you see it, you will be astonished. Every year during Chinese New Year, there will be 200 million coming back home to their rural residence. That is the migration of a huge population. Also there is a huge disparityof income between the urban and rural areas. Young college graduates would be overwhelmed by the rising real estate prices in major metropolitan cities. The commercial real estate is in some fear of a bubble taking place. Yes, so you have all sort of worries and concerns. I think keeping the society together is a huge challenge and task. Believe it or not, as a media professional, I think sometimes the speed is a little bit too fast. For example, the usage of the land. Probably we are overusing it. We have used the land reserve that should be used for the next generation. But we had developed so many things on a piece of ground. The architecture for example. There are some very bad pieces that will be taken apart sooner or later. What a waste of environment resources and money into it. So I think the society is opening up and keeps opening up.

　　主持人：那么你担心什么呢？

　　Host: So what do you worry about your country?

　　杨澜：我担心该如何保持这样的发展速度？一方面要保持建设速度；一方面要保证年轻一代不会失去机会。最近我访谈了“蚁族”人士，那是用来描述新毕业的大学生的，以三千多元的月收入，就是工作 10 年甚至 20 年，他们也买不起房子。所以他们正失去希望，所以这个社会怎样才能始终给年轻一代创造成功的机会？难道只能保持原先的增长速度？房价必须稳定在大部分人可以承受的范围之内。

　　Yang Lan: Well, I worry about how do you keep pace with this development? With this construction. Without the younger generation losing opportunities. Nowadays, I did interviews with so called "tribeof ants", describing the new college graduates with an income of $500 a month, they cannot afford an apartment or a home within 10 years of or 20 years of employment. So they are losing their hope. So how can the society provide the young people with opportunity to succeed? Only if they maintain the growth rate they had? You have to maintain a reasonable real estate price for the majority of the population.

　　主持人：如何才能做到呢？

　　Host: And how do they do that?

　　杨澜：我也确实没有答案。

　　Yang Lan: I really don't have a solution for that.

　　主持人：不过我想这是件我担心的事情。过去很长一段时间，年轻的中国学生去了美国或者英国的大学，他们中的很多留下来了，一些回到了中国。所以现在中国有不少 40 多岁， 50 多岁在国外受过教育的人被邀请回国，回国参与国家发展。吸引力来自于国家荣誉感。你在那些离开中国去了美国，英国或者其他地方比如俄国并决定回国参与中国正在发生的剧变的人们身上看到这点么？

　　Host: But I think that's a concern for me. For a long time, young Chinese had gone to American university, to British universities, many of them stayed or some of them come back. So you have people now in their 40s and 50s with graduate education outside of China. And they are being asked to come back. To come back and take part. The appeal is out of national pride. Do you see much of that in people who left China for United States, or England, or other places like Russia, who have decided to come back to participate in this extraordinary transformation that's taking place.

　　杨澜：我认为爱国是一回事，另一方面是实现梦想的机会，而且我认为这是更具决定性的因素。

　　Yang Lan: I think national pride is one thing. Opportunity and a chance to realize your dream is another. I think it's a more decisive element.

　　主持人：机会比爱国更重要。

　　Host: Opportunity is a more decisive element than pride.

　　杨澜：是的，即便对于普通人也是如此。在美国，建筑师可以梦想在曼哈顿设计建造一座大楼，但是他会有多少这样的机会呢？在中国，有几十上百个城市需要设计它们的地标。

　　Yang Lan: I think so, even for ordinary people. For example, an architect here can aspire to build one major building in Manhattan. But how many opportunities can be offered to him? In China, you have dozens or hundreds of cities designing their landmarks.

　　主持人：大部分我认识的著名建筑师都在中国工作了。

　　Host: Most great architects I know are working in China.

　　杨澜：那是一块巨大的实验田，可以尝试各种风格和创造，年轻人当然愿意回去寻求各自立业成名的机会。当年轻的商业人士在美国时，他们目睹了各种各样在中国还没有的服务。他们可以回国，创办一个新的培训中心，一所学校，一家幼儿园。他们可以创办任何事业。用他们在欧美，或者世界其它地方学到的作为参考，在国内，他们可以白手起家，花几年的时间获得成功。我想这方面的诱惑比国家荣誉感更强。不过当然，爱国也是很重要的一个元素。

　　Yang Lan: It's a huge test land of all sorts of styles and creativity. Of course, young people like to go back, and to seek their success or have their name made. Also young business people, when they stayed here in the US, they see all sorts of services, which is still unavailable in China. They can go back home and start a training center, a school, a kindergarten. They can start anything, using the references that they learned here or in Europe, or anywhere else in the world. When back home, they can start something from scratch, and get successful in a few years' time I think that temptation is even greater than national pride. But of course, national pride is one element.

主持人：中产阶级的崛起有多快？

　　Host: How fast is the middle class rising?

　　杨澜：因为很多人将此作为衡量中国发展的重要因素之一。看中国除了出口之外，内需市场是否能建立起来。我想中产阶级发展很快，不过我没有一个具体数字，当然也要看你怎么界定中产阶级，有稳定工作？有房产？

　　Yang Lan: Because many look at it as an important element of China's growth to find markets internally and serve the markets externally. I think the middle class is growing very fast. I don't have a specific number that I can give you. It also depends on how would you define a middle-class person. A regular job? a home?

　　主持人：那么你们在中国怎么界定中产阶级？

　　Host: How would you define middle class in China?

　　杨澜：嗯，我会说，租房住，买房住，有稳定的工作，事业发展有前景，有孩子，有车。这些是一些基本象征。就拿中国车辆销售的提升来说，这也是正在崛起的中产阶级的象征之一，去年中国卖出了 1 千万部新车，中国正成为所有行业数一数二的大市场。我想这是中国中产阶级正在崛起的一个象征。

　　Yang Lan: Well, I would say you know, a rented home, a board home. A regular job. A career in sight. Raising children, having a car. That can be some of the symbols. If you think of the rise of car sales in China, I think that would be one of the symbols of the rising middle class. Last year 10 million new cars were sold in China. It's becoming the first or the second largest market for everything. I think that could be one symbol of the rising of the middle class in China.

　　主持人：当我们谈论中国的政治和变化总会提及言论自由。我们都知道谷歌的争议事件，你怎样定义今天中国的言论自由？

　　Host: When we look at the politics of China, the changes of China there are always the questions of freedom of expression. We all know about the Google controversythat took place. How would you characterize freedom of expression today in China?

　　杨澜：仍然有规章制度、审批制度、令人失望的地方，这是肯定的。但我也看到进步，尤其是在互联网普及的情况下，互联网正成为人们对政策发表意见的重要渠道。好的坏的都包括。有不少滥用权力的例子在互联网上被曝光，公众的庞大力量促使政府更及时更透明地作出反应，并直接促使政府修改有关法规和政策，我想这是我们已经取得的进步。

　　Yang Lan: There are still regulations, censorship, frustrations. That's for sure. But I also see progress, especially through the introduction of internet. It has become a big public arena that more people will voice their opinions about public policies. Pros and cons. And there have been many cases when abuses of power were reported on the internet; huge public outcry will drive the government to be more spontaneous, to be more transparent, and also it directly led to the change of regulations or practices by the government. I think that's the progress we have made.

　　主持人：那么人权状况呢？

　　Host: And human rights?

　　杨澜：拿拘留犯人、服刑犯人来举例，互联网上会曝光那些遭受虐待的案例，事后相关人员被处分，会开展调查并重新修改相关法规。我想这是我们能看到的进步。当然，在一个大国，你每时每处都能见到很多问题在发生。我想现在最受关注的问题之一就是土地征用。人们担心土地因为城市发展被征用时能否得到合理赔偿。怎样算是合理的赔偿？有时候政府和居民有不同的看法。所以我们看到有很多冲突会发生。

　　Yang Lan: Well, taking the example of people in custody, or people in prison. There were cases reported through the internet. That they were mistreated. And then related personnels were published, investigations were initiated, and regulations have been reshaped. I think those are progresses that we can see. But of course, in such a vast country, you see a lot of issues, problems pumping out every day, in a lot of places. I think right now the major concern is the land usage. People worry about proper compensation for their land, which was taken away for urbanization or development. So what is proper compensation? Sometimes the government and residents may have different perspectives. That's what we see where a lot incidents come up.

　　主持人：你认识的很多中国人，你的朋友和同事，他们怎么看待今天的美国？

　　Host: How do you see a lot of Chinese that you know, your friends and colleagues view the United States today?

　　杨澜：哇，这是个大问题。我想人们觉得美国是一个自由开放的社会。在教育、文化和世界政治等方面有领导地位。但我想很多中国人不同意美国政府在国际上推行的一些政策，尤其是在伊拉克战争等事宜上。

　　Yang Lan: Wow, that's a big question. I think people look up to the US as it is a free and open society. It's leading in education, in culture, in world politics and so on so forth. But I think many Chinese disagree on some of the international policies that the US government holds. Especially on Iraq wars and so on so forth.

　　主持人：也有一些问题是有共识的，例如北朝鲜，中美在一些问题上有合作。

　　Host: But some agree on North Korea. US and China cooperate on some of …

　　杨澜：是的，中美在很多方面有合作。

　　Yang Lan: Yes, there is cooperation between US and China on a lot of fronts.

　　主持人：你怎样看中国，我知道你制作电视节目、开办企业和非政府报刊，但你怎样看中国在今后 25 年在世界上扮演的角色？

　　Host: How do you think China, I realize you do television programs and entrepreneur activities, and newspapers are not part of the government, how do you think China sees its role in the world over the next 25 years?

　　杨澜：我想中国在自由贸易方面、环保方面担当更多责任的同时不仅是为全世界着想，也是为我们自己着想。我们不能在健康受威胁的土地上生存。从国内，我们能比外人看到更多问题，我们看到很多的民工只要外汇汇率动摇一点就会工作不保，因为制造业的利润非常低。

　　Yang Lan: Well, I think while China will take on more responsibilities in terms of free trade, in terms of the environmental protection, it's not for the sake of the outside world. It's for our own people. We can't live on a polluted piece of land with our health threatened. Also I think from an internal perspective, we see more problems than outsiders can see. We see hundreds of millions of workers, who are migrant works, whose jobs are at stake, if the foreign currencies change a little bit. Because the margin for the manufacturing industry is very low.

　　主持人：你是不是想说中国抗拒货币升值的部分原因是不想影响工人的工资？

　　Host: You are suggesting that China's resistance to appreciate the currency was in part because it would affect the wages of the workers in China?

　　杨澜：不仅是工资，是他们的生计。上千万工人的工作会因此受到影响。我并不是站在政府角度来争论这些问题，我只是作为局内人想说我们比外面的人会看到更多的挑战。

　　Yang Lan: Not just the wages, it's the security of jobs. It could affect millions or tens of millions of jobs. I am not arguing from the government point of view. I am just arguing as an insider, we see more internal challenges than outsiders can see.

　　主持人：美国人也同样在争论。事实上人们会要求政府增加关税来保护美国工人。

　　Host: Americans make arguments the same way. In fact, you need to impose tariffs, because you need to protect the American workers.

　　杨澜：所以双方就需要平衡……对于所有国家的领导人，保护就业是重要问题。

　　Yang Lan: So I think it's a balance of both… How you protect jobs is an important problem for officials all over the world.

主持人：你对中国发展的最大希望是什么？你对你见证你成长的这片土地有着怎样的理想？你已经在文化和媒介方面扮演了如此重要的角色，反映了中国的变迁。

　　Host: So how do you most hope China will grow? What's your own great ambition for the place where you had grown up and you have played such an important, in the sense of culture and media, role reflecting its changes.

　　杨澜：就我而言，成为中国和世界沟通的桥梁是我想做的事情之一。作为北京奥运和上海世博会大使就是个例子。这部分工作就包括了把中国发生的一切告诉世界，还有把在中国以外发生的事情告诉国人。很有趣的是，我在电视的第一个节目就是向观众介绍外国的景观、历史和地理。然后是介绍人民、人性、观点，是更有深度的内容。这是我引以为豪的事情。另外我想做的是帮助中国建设文明社会，民间公益组织等等……

　　Yang Lan: Well, for me, I think bridging China and the outside world is part of what I can do. Serving as the ambassador for Beijing Olympics and Shanghai Expo could be part of that. So that part includes explaining to the world what's going on inside China and what's going on outside China. It's interesting that my first show on television is about introducing the scenery, history, geography for my audience. Later on it's about people, personalities, insights, perspectives to my audience, which is more in-depth, I hope. That's something I take great pride in. Another thing I want to do is to help to enhance the growth of civil society in China. The NPO, NGOs…

　　主持人：你是说创建机构?

　　Host: By that you mean creating institutions…

　　杨澜：是的，非盈利组织，非政府组织等。我的基金一直在和教育机构合作，比如哈佛大学，哥伦比亚大学，北京大学，清华大学，为培养非营利组织的高官提供课程。我认为这类的培训会对未来构建文明社会有很大帮助。

　　Yang Lan: Well, the NPOs, NGOs… My foundation has been working with the leading educational institutions like Harvard University, Columbia University, Peking University, Tsinghua University, to offer workshops for the training of the top executives of NPOs in China. So I think that capacity building for the civil society will mean a lot in the future for our society.

　　主持人：最后，请问是什么让你再次回到纽约？

　　Host: Finally, what brings you to New York?

　　杨澜：这次我是受邀参加在华盛顿举行的由财富杂志组织的全球最具权威女性大会,，而且每次回纽约都让人感觉甜蜜。我在哥大住了3年，所以来拜访一些老朋友会很有意义。在阳光明媚的一天来到纽约市感受一下中央公园，漫步在麦迪逊大道上，走到57街。体会这座城市的脉搏让我很有感觉。这是个我热爱的城市，我进修的地方，我结婚的地方，也是我第一个孩子出生的地方。所以我对这座城市有着深切的感情。

　　Yang Lan: Well, this time I was invited to attend a Fortune Magazine's most powerful women conference in Washington. And it's always sweet to come back to New York. I lived here for 3 years at Columbia. So visiting some of my old friends would mean a lot. And coming back to the city on a sunny day, have a feel for the central park and walk on Madison Avenue, 57th… Getting a feel of the city also means a lot of things to me. It's the city that I love, where I had my postgraduatestudy, I married, and my first child was born here in the city. So I have a personal and emotional attachment to the city itself.

　　主持人：很高兴看到你。

　　Host: We are glad to see you.

　　杨澜：谢谢，查理。

　　Yang Lan: Thank you, Charlie.