美国国家公共电台 NPR It Took A Decade, But Portman 'Just Had To Make' Her Latest Film

It Took A Decade, But Portman 'Just Had To Make' Her Latest Film

ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

The movie "A Tale Of Love And Darkness" is based on the memoir of the same title by Israeli author Amos Oz. Told in Hebrew, it's a story of his childhood in Jerusalem during the early years of Israeli independence. Natalie Portman, who was born in Jerusalem, directed, wrote and stars in the movie.

NATALIE PORTMAN: And so it just felt like something that I had to make and something that I was passionate about and curious about and interested in in a way that could be sustainable for as long as it takes to make a film, which is years and years.

SHAPIRO: For Portman, it took 10 years. And in that time, she told our co-host Robert Siegel, she also developed a deep understanding of her character, Fania, the mother of Oz and an immigrant from Eastern Europe.

PORTMAN: I think that Oz's words in the book about her - that she had a romantic melancholy - are sort of the best way to describe her. I think she's someone who had this sort of dreamy demeanor and had this sort of Slavic, cultural sense of beautiful tragedy. And, of course, the immigrant experience, which is - you know, when you're learning about Israel in school or - then Palestine - it's the land of milk and honey.

And then you get there, and it's dry and dusty and desert with none of the comforts of the European life she came from. You know, it's not the milk and honey she was promised. I think it's something that all immigrants experience to some extent - that the expectations and the reality don't measure up. And then when you have this sort of Slavic melancholy that Oz describes, that dissonance is tragic.

ROBERT SIEGEL, BYLINE: Between the time that you first encountered Amos Oz's memoir "A Tale Of Love And Darkness" and read it and the time that the movie came out, you got married and had - and had a child during all that time.

PORTMAN: This is true.

SIEGEL: Your life became a lot closer to the character you were depicting...

PORTMAN: (Laughter) Yes.

SIEGEL: ...Than it was when you first - when you first started all this.

PORTMAN: Yes. I mean, of course, living in much easier circumstances than the character and more emotionally pleasant (laughter) state. But when I originally started, I thought I would hire an Israeli actress to play the role. Of course, being 25, I couldn't imagine playing a mother of a 10-year-old, you know, in her late 30s. And as it took longer and longer for me to get my script finished and my financing together, all of a sudden, it became clear that I was getting old enough to play the role.

And I feel that it was sort of a fateful thing that it took me that long because I understood so many different aspects of the character and of the story by having life experiences like you described. You understand what the real version of marriage and motherhood is versus your childhood princess fantasies or whatever. You can understand that real distance between your childhood dreams and what they turn into.

SIEGEL: Did you - I read that you spoke to directors you worked with about for some guidance on directing. Whom did you talk to, and what did you ask them?

PORTMAN: Yes. Mike Nichols was a great friend and mentor to me. The biggest influence was that he emphasized story so much. That - he said, keep reminding yourself and your crew and your cast the story all the time, and name things that are happening. Name - this is the moment when they fall in love. This is the moment she realizes he's cheating. This is the moment he sees his mother as flawed for the first time. And when you name that, you're all on the same page, and you can sort of connect the dots of your story. And that was really helpful.

I also worked with Terrence Malick right before I filmed. And he was incredibly helpful, too, in constantly reminding me to do it my own way. He kept saying to me - paint from life. Don't look at other movies. Don't try and do what other people are doing. You paint from your experience. And also that when people tell you, oh, it has to have more of an engine or more of a three-act structure - whatever banal things they tell you a movie needs - he's like - that's not true. Like, you're - every person has a different way of seeing the world and telling a story, and you stick to that.

SIEGEL: Your character, Fania, is the mother of Amos Oz - is the central character of this movie - but Amos is a child in the story.

PORTMAN: Yes.

SIEGEL: So you're directing a child. And I was wondering - were there lessons about directing a child that came from your own experience of acting as a kid.

PORTMAN: Well, first of all, I was really lucky to find a really, truly amazing child, Amir Tessler, who plays Amos Oz. Amir came into his audition and started telling me how interested he was in politics and then started doing political impressions of all the different sort of ministers. And I was like, oh, what are you interested in? He's like, I'm not really interested in between parties. I'm more interested in the politics within the parties. The kid's eight. He's eight years old and is just a really amazing kid.

But I think the biggest thing I learned was that I tried to make the set a really friendly and fun environment because I know, as a kid, people did that for me and made it feel like a game and not like work. And the second thing is that sometimes, you know, when you do have to do things many times, that's when it becomes harder for a kid because repeating the same emotion can make it less natural.

So something I actually learned from Anthony Minghella as an adult was that he would have actors opposite me say a different line - and they were supposed to in the scene - to get a different reaction. So I would do that with Amir sometimes - you know, when he needed to get really excited running out when he finds out that his garden has grown. And it was hard to get that specific reaction. And so I had the actor opposite him tell him that there was an ice cream truck outside. And his face just lit up, and he ran outside. And, you know, it's a little trick maybe, but not anything cruel.

SIEGEL: So you've made a movie about the memoir of an Israeli writer, a novelist who still has novels coming out.

PORTMAN: Yes.

SIEGEL: I mean, what's your relationship with Amos Oz, having put his childhood or his one version of it onto the screen.

PORTMAN: Oh, he is truly amazing man. I admire him so much, and I feel grateful that he's been so welcoming and warm. He's told me - you know, he told me from the beginning, you know, this is going to be hard for me. It's going to be hard for me to watch. It's my life. It's my story. It's my mother.

But he's been so supportive along the way, and he loved the film. And it was kind of the biggest relief to me to have that because I love him and I love his books so much that it was, of course, important for me to do him justice. And he, from the beginning, said to me, please make your own film. The book exists. Don't just try and film the book. Like, make something that's your own, which was wonderful and freeing.

SIEGEL: Well, Natalie Portman, thanks for talking with us once again, this time about your new film "A Tale Of Love And Darkness."

PORTMAN: Thank you so much for having me.

SHAPIRO: That was our co-host Robert Siegel talking with Natalie Portman about her new film, which is out tomorrow.