美国国家公共电台 NPR As Syrian Government Forces Advance, The War Could Be At A Turning Point

As Syrian Government Forces Advance, The War Could Be At A Turning Point 

DAVID GREENE, HOST: 

We're going to hear from inside Syria now. This country appears to be at a turning point in its almost six-year civil war. Forces loyal to President Bashar al-Assad have advanced deep into a rebel stronghold in the city of Aleppo, and it appears the government could retake the city. NPR's Alice Fordham is one of few Western journalists allowed into Syria, and she's been traveling there for the past week. She joins us now from the coastal 1 city of Tartus. Hi, Alice.

ALICE FORDHAM, BYLINE 2: Hello.

GREENE: So I gather this coastal city is really the heartland of support for the government and President Assad. Is that right?

FORDHAM: Exactly, yeah. And there hasn't been a lot of fighting here, so the city itself seems kind of OK. But once you start talking to people, you realize that nearly every family here has someone - at least one person - in the Syrian army. And more men from Tartus have been killed fighting for Asaad per capita than anywhere else in the country. It's customary here to have a poster made to commemorate 3 someone's death, and the city is plastered with these posters, layer on layer in some places, built up over the nearly six years of the civil war.

GREENE: Fascinating because we hear so much about places held by rebels and the sacrifices and death there. It's a reminder 4 the people close to the government, I mean, fighting for the government have been sacrificing as well. I mean, where else have you gone in the country?

FORDHAM: Well, speaking to places that were held by rebels, I was able to get to Homs, where some of the soldiers from Tartus surely died. Homs is affected 5 in a very different way. Much of central Homs was at one time held by rebel forces. And as a result of the battle there, the infrastructure 6 has been massively damaged. Sixty percent of the city is uninhabitable now. We know that many civilians 7 lived in the opposition 8-held areas of Homs and were killed by the security forces. That figures when you see the wreckage 9 of the city there.

GREENE: And what about the capital, Damascus, where I know you've also spent some time?

FORDHAM: Right. Well, I often used to visit as a tourist before the war, and I've been able to get there occasionally but haven't been back in five years. And we know, of course, that there are still sieges and battles on the edge of the city, but the center is remarkably 10 physically 11 untouched. And although information is tightly controlled, that goes for everywhere. We always need permission for everything and to be accompanied by someone approved by the Information Ministry 12. I was able to take the temperature a little bit, and I can play you some of the voices from there.

Here in central Damascus, it's perfectly 13 clear that Assad is still in control. In the souks of the beautiful, old city, his face looks out of almost every shop window, pinned up next to gold jewelry 14 or intricate rugs. And no one has a bad word to say about him. I meet with Basam Abu Abdullah, a professor of international relations and adviser 15 to the Information Ministry, and ask him about the mood here.

BASSAM ABU ABDULLAH: The mood in Damascus now is better, and it's very good. So Aleppo is a very important and strategic turning point in Syria and for the world.

FORDHAM: Regime supporters say eastern Aleppo is held by terrorists who have kept innocent people hostage there. People inside the opposition-held area, aid workers and the UN say there are maybe 200,000 civilians there suffering under assault by the Syrian armed forces and their allies. Hospitals, schools, apartment blocks have been leveled. An intermittent 16 siege has left people hungry and cold. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. But for Abu Abdullah, the gunmen are terrorists. And if the regime crushes them, that will be a turning point in the almost six-years civil war.

ABDULLAH: I think it's beginning of the end, I think, because most of the parties are tired, and the winner is very clearly that there is no way for these terrorists.

FORDHAM: And Abu Abdullah sees another reason for Assad supporters to be cheerful.

ABDULLAH: The other important things now are the elections of the United States.

FORDHAM: He was surprised and relieved to see Donald Trump 17 win.

ABDULLAH: I felt that it's good for Syria. This is first my feeling.

FORDHAM: He had feared Hillary Clinton would strengthen the Syrian opposition, and he hopes Trump, by contrast, will back Assad. Later, I sit with the editor-in-chief of the newspaper Alwatan, Waddah Abed Rabbu. He does call for slow government reforms, but he's also on good terms with government officials. He, too, was relieved to see Trump win.

WADDAH ABED RABBU: In Damascus, like all over the world, it was a surprise, but a good one this time, I mean.

FORDHAM: I ask about the Obama administration, which maintained that Assad had lost legitimacy 18 because his forces killed so many civilians and that he could not be a cohesive 19 force in Syria. Abed Rabbu says Western powers were just wrong about that.

RABBU: They only want to see the president is unpopular. He's a bad guy. He has to go. He has to leave. But this was not true.

FORDHAM: He concedes that Assad may not be popular with everyone but says he has more than 50-percent approval and that he's the only person who can unify 20 Syria. In those markets at the old city, at first, things seem OK. They're bustling 21 and busy till long after dark. One shopkeeper tells me his takings are up 70 percent, year on year. Another shopkeeper named Ali Dera plays backgammon and says he feels safe now.

ALI DERA: (Foreign language spoken).

FORDHAM: "There are crowds out on the street," he says. "The security has improved. The news from Aleppo is pleasing," he adds.

DERA: (Foreign language spoken).

FORDHAM: But even here, there are constant signs of the ravages 22 of the war which is playing out across the country. The power is out a lot. Food prices have tripled or more since the war began. And as shoppers wander, homeless children run up and beg, a reminder that half of Syrians no longer live in their homes.

GREENE: OK, Alice is still on the line with us. And, Alice, just thinking about the future of this country, half of Syrians out of their homes, many of them outside Syria now. Do you get a sense - will the Assad regime let them come back to their home safely?

FORDHAM: Well, Assad likes to emphasize that all Syrians should feel welcome to come back to their country. And officials say the only people being arrested as they come out of the rebel-held part of Aleppo are terrorists, that people who were not terrorists that just lived in opposition-held areas are welcome to resume life as normal Syrian citizens. But we know the opposition has seen a lot of broken promises in the past, and they'll be watching very closely to see how these people from opposition areas are treated as Assad's forces move into them.

GREENE: OK, speaking to our colleague, NPR's Alice Fordham, who's been traveling around Syria, talking to us now from the Syrian city of Tartus. Alice, thanks.

FORDHAM: Thanks for having me.