美国国家公共电台 NPR Liev Schreiber On The 'Unsafe' Obsession With Celebrity And The Story Of 'Chuck'

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

Today...

(SOUNDBITE OF BILL CONTI'S "GONNA FLY NOW")

MARTIN: If you are a fan of boxing or blockbusters or both, then I don't need to tell you that that is the theme song to the 1976 film "Rocky," which won several Oscars including Best Picture. It spawned 1 six "Rocky" sequels and made Sylvester Stallone a superstar.

(SOUNDBITE OF BILL CONTI'S "GONNA FLY NOW")

MARTIN: What you may not know is that "Rocky" was based in part on a real person, Chuck Wepner, a heavyweight boxer 2 and hometown celebrity 3 from New Jersey 4 who was known as the Bayonne Bleeder. Now Wepner gets the star treatment in his own right as the subject of a new feature film called "Chuck" starring Liev Schreiber in the title role.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "CHUCK")

LIEV SCHREIBER: (As Chuck Wepner) My name is Chuck Wepner. You don't know me - well, you do know me, but you don't know you know me. Once upon a time, I was the heavyweight champ in New Jersey. They called me the Bayonne Bleeder. I always hated that name, but for some reason it stuck. Hoboken had Sinatra. Bayonne had me.

MARTIN: Chuck tells the story of Wepner's sudden and improbable rise to celebrity after he got a chance to fight the reigning 5 heavyweight champion Muhammad Ali and lasted all the way into the 15th round, even though he lost. But it also follows his fall from the mountaintop, consumed by cocaine 6, and you might say an even more addicting 7 drug, fame.

To hear more about it, I spoke 8 with the film star, Liev Schreiber. He's a boxing fan himself, and he told me he first got interested in the project when film producer Mike Tolan showed him the screenplay about 10 years ago.

SCHREIBER: But I kind of went on to other things and busied myself with having children and being cast in television shows and in that period of time that went by, I kind of became more and more drawn 9 to the cautionary tale about celebrity and fame that seemed to be at the heart of Chuck's story. And so when the financing miraculously 10 materialized, I thought, well, yeah, let's do this and let's try to nudge it in this direction.

MARTIN: Which direction is that?

SCHREIBER: I think we live in a sort of celebrity-obsessed culture, and that obsession 11 with fame for fame's sake is kind of alarming to me. It feels unsafe, and there was something about Chuck's story that articulated that in a kind of simple, but also entertaining and compelling way.

MARTIN: You know, you've given us a lot to think about here because...

SCHREIBER: (Laughter).

MARTIN: ...There's the thing itself, and then there is how we think about the thing itself.

SCHREIBER: Right.

MARTIN: So let me separate those. OK. So let's start with the boxing side of it. Let me just play a short clip from it. This is where, you know, his big chance in the limelight comes when Don King sets up this improbable fight against Muhammad Ali. And, you know, yes, Chuck is the long shot, but here's a clip from the movie where he's talking about the fight. Here it is.

(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "CHUCK")

SCHREIBER: (As Chuck Wepner) By the 12th round, he'd already closed both my eyes, broke my nose and he still dances circles around me. I didn't care. I was just happy to be in the ring with him. I don't remember much after that. As I'm trying to stay on my feet, I could feel him hit me - no pain just the fud of his fists bone on bone. Boom, boom - stay up Chuck, stay up.

MARTIN: You know, I have to say there were points in this film - I mean, there's blood everywhere. It's not like you kind of shy away from what is brutal 12 about this sport. And yet, it sounds like he's in love. I mean, he's beaten to a pulp 13, he lost the fight and he's loving it. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SCHREIBER: That's kind of the price of fame. You know? That's the price he's willing to pay, and that's what was so moving to me about him as a character is that at some level, tragic 14 mistake, you know - originally the film was called the Bleeder, which was a title that I really liked because it was evocative in that way, the extent to which this guy would go for attention and for respect and for approval. And I think we can all identify with that, certainly, I can as an actor.

But I think that once you've earned that approval, what it contributes to your life is questionable 15. It's not everybody turns the corner to realize that what they give in this life is infinitely 16 more important than what they take. And I think that Chuck found that one out the hard way.

MARTIN: It also features this theme. It's about his relationship with boxing movies. I mean, Chuck...

SCHREIBER: Yeah.

MARTIN: ...In the film spends a lot of the time in the film re-enacting a scene from the 1962 Anthony Quinn film "Requiem 18 For A Heavyweight" and then bragging 19 about being the real life Rocky, and yet his relationship to the "Rocky" films is actually kind of complicated. What is that about do you think? Is it - are you saying in a way that we get our meaning from the meaning that others ascribe to it?

SCHREIBER: It's a very...

MARTIN: ...It's hard imitating life, imitating art, imitating life. What are you saying here?

SCHREIBER: Yeah. I think you said it beautifully, actually. And that was Philippe Falardeau, the film's director - that was one of the things that he was trying to accomplish by having "Requiem For A Heavyweight" and "Rocky" present as well, that it's not really a boxing movie. It's a boxing movie about boxing movies. It's actually about identity and our desire to be recognized. And, you know, that trip down the rabbit hole we're all willing to make to get approval, to get appreciation 20, to get the respect that we're unable to give ourselves.

MARTIN: Before we let you go, I wanted to ask about Chuck. I understand you got to spend some time with him in preparing for this role. I understand that he was disappointed that you didn't actually fight the bear that he...

SCHREIBER: Yeah.

MARTIN: ...That he fights bear - he - to make money - right? - after he - the big fight, he actually would fight bears.

SCHREIBER: He fought Victor a couple of times, I think, and he did it for charity, which is something that we didn't mention in the movie. I think it's important to mention.

MARTIN: OK. That's kind of a relief, but not really. But still...

SCHREIBER: Yeah, right? A little bit. Come on. He fought for Make A Wish, you know?

MARTIN: OK.

SCHREIBER: Anyways he showed up...

MARTIN: He could've washed cars, but that's cool...

SCHREIBER: (Laughter) He showed up at the set, and I - was always a pleasure to have Chuck and Linda at set. I love them both dearly, and makes me a little nervous acting 17 in front of them. But he showed up, thankfully, on a day when I wasn't talking much. I was fighting a bear, and he showed up and brought some friends. And they were all standing 21 around by the monitor, and I went out to see him. And he was like, (imitating Chuck Wepner) so, Liev, you know when you get in there with the bear, make sure you spin him. You know, and once you spin him, he can't really see you, you know, you get around behind him and he's not going to scratch you or anything.

And I looked at him, and I was like, Chuck, you know, that they're actually not going to let me in the ring with a bear, right? Like, the insurance company would never let the lead actor of a movie get in the ring with a bear? And this just profound look of disappointment came over his face, and I could just see that he had driven all the way from Bayonne with his wife and two friends in the back of a Cadillac expecting to see Ray Donovan fight a bear. And it just - it wasn't going to happen. And he was extraordinarily 22 polite, and I know that it took a lot for him to be so nice after finding out I wasn't going to do it.

MARTIN: Liev Schreiber is an actor, writer and director. His latest film "Chuck" is out this week. He's also starting his fifth season as "Ray Donovan" which is on Showtime. He was nice enough to join us from our studios at NPR West in Culver City, Calif. Liev Schreiber, thanks so much for speaking with us.

SCHREIBER: Thanks for having me, Michel.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "EYE OF THE TIGER")

SURVIVOR 23: (Singing) Rising up back on the street, did my time, took my chances.