美国国家公共电台 NPR Set 40 Years In The Past, 'Guerrilla' Speaks Strongly To Today

STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:

A few years ago, the American screenwriter John Ridley was working in Britain. He learned a bit of history. It was new to him. It felt familiar. It was the story of a time in the 1970s when Britain struggled with that American sounding question - who are we?

JOHN RIDLEY: There came a point where there was - issues of immigration and who was really British and who belonged in this country. All of those things that were embedded 1, things that I was completely unaware 2 of.

INSKEEP: John Ridley has now written and directed a Showtime series about that moment. It's the story of a time when Britain welcomed immigrants of color from former colonies to work but did not give them many opportunities. One scene shows a well-educated black man talking, we think, to a white man at an employment office about getting a teaching job.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "GUERRILLA")

IDIRS ELBA: (As Kent) I'd be very interested in a placement in university education - not that I wouldn't consider something at a secondary school but I think I have more to offer...

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Do you have a license 3?

ELBA: (As Kent) I have a degree in...

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (As character) Do you have a driving license? I could get you something in transport straightaway. Now, if you can't drive, there's a desperate need for porters. But you seem like one of the smart ones, and I'd like to get you something good. Can you drive then?

INSKEEP: This man and others gradually turned toward violent solutions. By the end of the first episode, they've broken a radical 4 black leader out of prison, which is why the show is called "Guerrilla."

John Ridley is the screenwriter of "12 Years A Slave." Now he's created a series about a black man and an Indian woman, both immigrants to a white society. There's a reason that Ridley shows the teacher humiliated 5 at that employment agency desk.

RIDLEY: One of the things that was very important to us, frankly 6, was to not do a show about crazy people of color grabbing guns and to show people who have struggled as best they could to be part of the system, to contribute, to have value. But unfortunately, in our country - in America - and in the U.K. at that time period, there were lines that were drawn 7. People were not interested in what you could potentially do. They were only interested in what they thought one could do.

INSKEEP: The man behind the desk - I said he's a white man. I guess we don't literally 8 know that. We never even see him. We just hear his voice.

RIDLEY: Yeah. You know, part of, for me, the language of cinema is to take the opposition 9 and in some ways reduce who they are. Sometimes the opposition that some of us face - all of us face in some ways, in different ways, you know, is faceless. It's systemic. And everybody faces that system in different ways based on - you know, it could be race, could be a class, could be faith; it could be orientation 10. But there's moments where you're sitting somewhere trying to participate, and the person on the other end, they can't see you.

INSKEEP: So he ends up responding by going to extremes. And let's play a little bit more of this. He's talking with his partner, Jas, and they are discussing whether to begin committing violent acts. Let's listen.

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "GUERRILLA")

FREIDA PINTO: (As Jas) I'm not afraid prison. Are you?

ELBA: (As Kent) You don't get to shame me into doing something mental, Jas.

PINTO: (As Jas) All the speeches, the empty rhetoric 11 - they do nothing. They do nothing; we need to do something.

INSKEEP: What did you do to get into the frame of mind of someone who ends up committing violence?

RIDLEY: It was difficult because for me - I very sincerely - I don't think violence is the solution. I don't think it's an answer. But I think we see time and time again that when real, positive, long-term solutions are not presented to people, there are individuals who will turn to violent acts.

What was very important and is, I think, what was represented in that scene - it wasn't a sudden jump. It wasn't as though these two individuals woke up and said, we're going to do this. And she is a nurse. You know, she's a person who wants to - her objective is to care for people. So how do you get from a space where that's your drive as a person, to care, to a space where you feel like the only thing you can do is pick up arms against the empire?

INSKEEP: In writing about immigration and race in a different place and time, did you intend to comment on the United States right now?

RIDLEY: No. This story - you know, honestly, it was something that was fascinating to me when I was a kid. It was something that I felt deserved further exploration as I got older. It was a project that I started working on in earnest almost 10 years ago. And despite the fact that the setting was more than 40 years ago, that there are elements that people can draw a direct parallel to between what happened then and what happened now, that's without any effort. And that tells me there is a problem with our current set of circumstances - when immigration, when demonization, when marginalization is still the norm.

INSKEEP: What is the problem?

RIDLEY: I - you know, listen, people who are far smarter, sharper...

INSKEEP: (Laughter).

RIDLEY: ...Shrewder than I am - very seriously. You know, look, immigration - there are true, legitimate 12 issues with how we deal with how people travel between nations and seek out an other different, better, life for themselves. That's the history of the world. But the prevailing 13 culture often find ways of saying that's wrong, you're wrong and, as I say, demonize those individuals.

INSKEEP: You constantly dig into heavy subjects. Does it drag you down?

RIDLEY: It does. I mean, I can't lie to you. I try to make it less about me, and I try to make it more about other people and their lives and their experiences. And you end up realizing that you're carrying around a lot of things that other people have trusted you with and that you have an obligation to try to get it right.

But at the same time, I've been blessed. I've been truly blessed with having the opportunity to put stories into the culture that other people seem to either actively 14 ignore or be afraid to speak to. Compared to what other people do or compared to what my parents did so that I may do this, it's pretty easy.

INSKEEP: John Ridley, it's been a pleasure talking with you again.

RIDLEY: Steve, thank you very much as always.

INSKEEP: John Ridley is the writer behind the new miniseries "Guerrilla." The first episode appears on Showtime this Sunday night.

(SOUNDBITE OF THE FUNK ARK'S "MIND MELD")